Land zoning/classification

Finding land, working a small plot or anything else countryside related
paradoxbox
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Re: Land zoning/classification

Post by paradoxbox »

Never noticed that case before.

If google maps or another satellite survey place has aerial photos of his property it may be possible to actually zoom in and see the markers as they were at the last satellite photograph pass which is usually several years ago. It would be impossible to deny the land borders in that case as the photos are to correct scale.

I had problems with my neighbors moving land markers as well. They did not have a problem with me but the land was under some kind of family dispute and the owner of the land I was renting on was one of the family members in the dispute. I got caught up in the middle of it.

Eventually I just made friends with the old grandmother who was the original owner of all the land and she told her sons to knock it off and I got my land back. It was a significant problem for me since it was reducing my plantable area by about 1/3rd.

Better to try to solve things before it goes to court but if you're in a legal battle aerial or satellite photos showing the markers would probably be the final word.

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Zasso Nouka
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Re: Land zoning/classification

Post by Zasso Nouka »

I think CYEK's case was more to do with buying farmland without actually being a registered farmer and then not having title transferred as he didn't have a farmer's license. So as far as I understand he had paid for the land but it wasn't his as he didn't have the necessary paperwork to obtain title.

This is one of the reasons why we really stress that anyone buying farmland liaise really closely with the local council before proceeding as solicitors and estate agents will happily sign off on a sale even if you don't have the correct paperwork as it's not their job to check but if you don't have a farmer's license or the willing cooperation of your local council you won't be able to transfer title to yourself. I've heard of 'workarounds' where you can say you 'intend' to become a farmer to complete a sale and that will get an agent and solicitor to sign off on the deal but if you don't have the license you could well end up paying for but not getting the land you thought you were buying and be substantially out of pocket with nothing to show for it.

A cooperative and willing local council on the other hand can nearly always find a way to help a sale go through, by rezoning the land or even signing you up to be a registered farmer but an uncooperative one can just dig their heels in and block you.

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Re: Land zoning/classification

Post by paradoxbox »

That is pretty crappy.

What are the options in that case?

Farming without a farmer's permit?

How about selling the land to someone else (an accomplice), getting the necessary permits then repurchasing the land and developing it by force?

What can the local farmer's council do to someone who ignores all the rules?

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gonbechan
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Re: Land zoning/classification

Post by gonbechan »

Buying agricultural land is really complicated Paradoxbox.
Having the farmer's permit is necessary to have the land title transferred.

Here are 2 links that are maybe not in the best English, but at least shed more light on the process than most pages.

Buying Farmland

Obtaining a permit to buy farmland

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Re: Land zoning/classification

Post by Zasso Nouka »

paradoxbox wrote:What can the local farmer's council do to someone who ignores all the rules?
In most matters concerning farmland you will have to ultimately deal with the Nougyou Inkaii which is made up of local farmers generally and much depends on who the head is. Our local leader is a really open minded forward thinking individual who actively tries to encourage new farmers and works closely with the council to ease passage of anyone wanting to enter farming but he told us of a case in Tako the town next to us where the leader and group are very conservative. A chap built a house on farmland without first seeking permission and got into a battle with the Nougyou Inkaii and he finally took them to court and lost, naturally the Nougyou Inkaii had the rules on their side and the court ordered him to demolish the house. This chap took it to a higher court and lost again and was told again that there are certain rules that have to be followed and it wasn't the court's job to change the rules. Last I heard he had found a workaround where a house without a proper roof doesn't count so he stripped the roof off and now lives in a house the has blue sheets for a roof. Apparently it is pretty cold in winter and sometimes typhoons remove the sheets for him which can't be nice. The moral of the story, don't f*ck around with the Nougyou Inkaii, they have the rules on their side and at the end of the day they will win.
paradoxbox wrote: Farming without a farmer's permit?

How about selling the land to someone else (an accomplice), getting the necessary permits then repurchasing the land and developing it by force?
If title of the land hasn't been transferred then it's not your land and still belongs to the seller so you'd be rather limited in what you could and I would imagine you'd run the risk of becoming a social pariah if you did try to push matters forcefully. You'd almost certainly permanently alienate the local council and Nougyou Inkaii.

As for farming land without a permit that is one of those grey areas, it's not strictly illegal nor is it properly legal but the penalties aren't defined either. Practically speaking the only way you can do it is by renting as a non farmer couldn't actually purchase the land. As a non farmer you could rent a plot of farmland from a neighbour and grow food or whatever there but you are not allowed to sell that food, you can give it away for free but can't sell it. However your neighbour could come under peer pressure to cease renting the land to you from the Nougyou Inkaii if they are of a mind of they might just not care.

Which brings us back to talking to the local council and specifically the agricultural department before purchasing a property that contains farmland. If they are not cooperative then it is far better to look elsewhere for an area that wants to help you settle there as that will make life so much simpler in the future.

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